Obstruction Of Justice: The New York Edition | Deadline | MSNBC

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TOMORROW AT 1:00 P.M. EASTERN WITH STEPHANIE RUHL ANDE AND 3:0 WITH STEPHANIE RUHL ANDE AND 3:0 P.M. EASTERN. P.M. EASTERN. “DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE WITH “DEADLINE WHITE HOUSE WITH NICOLLE WALLACE” STARTS NOW. NICOLLE WALLACE” STARTS NOW.>>>HI, EVERYONE, IT’S 4:00 IN>>>HI, EVERYONE, IT’S 4:00 IN NEW YORK. NEW YORK. WE HAVE A BREAKING NEWS BONANZA WE HAVE A BREAKING NEWS BONANZA TODAY. TODAY. “THE NEW YORK TIMES” OUT THIS “THE NEW YORK TIMES” OUT THIS AFTERNOON WITH AN OBSTRUCTION OF AFTERNOON WITH AN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE OPUS. JUSTICE OPUS. IT’S THE KIND OF REPORTING THAT IT’S THE KIND OF REPORTING THAT REFRAMES HOW WE LOOK AT REFRAMES HOW WE LOOK AT QUESTIONS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL QUESTIONS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL DEPTH AND BREADTH OF DONALD DEPTH AND BREADTH OF DONALD TRUMP’S CONDUCT. TRUMP’S CONDUCT. IN THIS INSTANCE, OBSTRUCTION OF IN THIS INSTANCE, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. JUSTICE. THE NEW YORK EDITION. THE NEW YORK EDITION. NEW REPORTING IN “THE NEW YORK NEW REPORTING IN “THE NEW YORK TIMES” MAKING CLEAR THAT DONALD TIMES” MAKING CLEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP SOUGHT TO INTERFERE WITH TRUMP SOUGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THE INVESTIGATIONS OUT OF THE THE INVESTIGATIONS OUT OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF”TIMES” ALSO SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF”TIMES” ALSO REPORTING ON THE OBSTRUCTION OF REPORTING ON THE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE INTO THE PRESIDENT JUSTICE CASE INTO THE PRESIDENT LIKELY BEING ASSEMBLED BY ROBERT LIKELY BEING ASSEMBLED BY ROBERT S. MUELLER. S. MUELLER. WE START WITH THE CASES OUT OF WE START WITH THE CASES OUT OF NEW YORK WHICH MANY TRUMP ALLIES NEW YORK WHICH MANY TRUMP ALLIES BELIEVE REPRESENT A GRAVE LEGAL BELIEVE REPRESENT A GRAVE LEGAL THREAT TO THE PRESIDENT. THREAT TO THE PRESIDENT. FROM THE “TIMES” TODAY, “AS FROM THE “TIMES” TODAY, “AS FEDERAL PROSECUTORS IN MANHATTAN FEDERAL PROSECUTORS IN MANHATTAN GATHERED EVIDENCE LATE LAST YEAR GATHERED EVIDENCE LATE LAST YEAR ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ROLE IN ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ROLE IN SILENCING WOMEN WITH HUSH SILENCING WOMEN WITH HUSH PAYMENTS DURING THE 2016 PAYMENTS DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN, MR. TRUMP CALLED CAMPAIGN, MR. TRUMP CALLED MATTHEW WHITAKER, HIS NEWLY MATTHEW WHITAKER, HIS NEWLY INSTALLED A.G., WITH A QUESTION. INSTALLED A.G., WITH A QUESTION. HE ASKED WHETHER JEFF BERMAN, HE ASKED WHETHER JEFF BERMAN, THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE THE U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, AND A TRUMP ALLY, COULD BE PUT AND A TRUMP ALLY, COULD BE PUT IN CHARGE OF THE WIDENING IN CHARGE OF THE WIDENING INVESTIGATION.” INVESTIGATION.” THAT’S ACCORDING TO SEVERAL THAT’S ACCORDING TO SEVERAL AMERICAN OFFICIALS WITH DIRECT AMERICAN OFFICIALS WITH DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF THE CALL. KNOWLEDGE OF THE CALL. THE “TIMES” ALSO WRITES THIS, THE “TIMES” ALSO WRITES THIS, “MR. WHITAKER, WHO HAD PRIVATELY “MR. WHITAKER, WHO HAD PRIVATELY TOLD ASSOCIATES THAT PART OF HIS TOLD ASSOCIATES THAT PART OF HIS ROLE AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ROLE AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WAS TO, QUOTE, JUMP ON A GRENADE WAS TO, QUOTE, JUMP ON A GRENADE FOR THE PRESIDENT. FOR THE PRESIDENT. KNEW THAT HE COULD NOT PUT MR. KNEW THAT HE COULD NOT PUT MR. BERMAN IN CHARGE SINCE MR.ER ER BERMAN IN CHARGE SINCE MR.ER ER BERMAN HAD ALREADY RECUSED BERMAN HAD ALREADY RECUSED HIMSELF FROM THE INVESTIGATION. HIMSELF FROM THE INVESTIGATION. THE PRESIDENT WOULD SOON SOUR ON THE PRESIDENT WOULD SOON SOUR ON WHITAKER AS HE OFTEN DOES WITH WHITAKER AS HE OFTEN DOES WITH HIS AIDES AND COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS AIDES AND COMPLAINED ABOUT HIS INABILITY TO PULL LEVERS AT HIS INABILITY TO PULL LEVERS AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT COULD MAKE THE PRESIDENT’S MANY COULD MAKE THE PRESIDENT’S MANY LEGAL PROBLEMS GO AWAY.” LEGAL PROBLEMS GO AWAY.” THE NEWS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP THE NEWS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP MAY HAVE TRIED TO INTERFERE WITH MAY HAVE TRIED TO INTERFERE WITH THE COHEN PROBE AND OTHER THE COHEN PROBE AND OTHER INVESTIGATIONS OUT OF THE INVESTIGATIONS OUT OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT SUGGESTS SOUTHERN DISTRICT SUGGESTS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE AGAINST TRUMP IS WIDER THAN WE AGAINST TRUMP IS WIDER THAN WE EVER KNEW AND THAT IT EXTENDS EVER KNEW AND THAT IT EXTENDS BEYOND JUST TRUMP’S ALLEGED BEYOND JUST TRUMP’S ALLEGED ACTIONS AGAINST ROBERT MUELLER’S ACTIONS AGAINST ROBERT MUELLER’S INVESTIGATION. INVESTIGATION. THE PRESIDENT TODAY PUSHING BACK THE PRESIDENT TODAY PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS DAMNING NEW REPORT. AGAINST THIS DAMNING NEW REPORT.>>YOU ASKED ACTING ATTORNEY>>YOU ASKED ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL MATTHEW WHITAKER TO GENERAL MATTHEW WHITAKER TO CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP OF THE INVESTIGATION INTO YOUR FORMER INVESTIGATION INTO YOUR FORMER PERSONAL ATTORNEY MICHAEL COHEN? PERSONAL ATTORNEY MICHAEL COHEN?>>NO.>>NO. NOT AT ALL. NOT AT ALL. I DON’T KNOW WHO GAVE YOU THAT. I DON’T KNOW WHO GAVE YOU THAT. THAT’S MORE FAKE NEWS. THAT’S MORE FAKE NEWS. LOT OF — THERE’S A LOT OF LOT OF — THERE’S A LOT OF FAKE — THERE’S A LOT OF MAKE FAKE — THERE’S A LOT OF MAKE NEWS OUT THERE. NEWS OUT THERE. NO, I DIDN’T. NO, I DIDN’T.>>A LOT OF REAL NEWS OUT THERE>>A LOT OF REAL NEWS OUT THERE THESE DAYS. THESE DAYS. THE NEW ALLEGATIONS SURROUNDING THE NEW ALLEGATIONS SURROUNDING THE COHEN CASE IN NEW YORK IS THE COHEN CASE IN NEW YORK IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL UNSETTLING JUST ONE OF SEVERAL UNSETTLING NEW REVELATIONS EXPOSED IN THE NEW REVELATIONS EXPOSED IN THE “TIMES’” NEW BOMBSHELL THAT “TIMES’” NEW BOMBSHELL THAT TOGETHER HELP LAY OUT THE FULL TOGETHER HELP LAY OUT THE FULL SCOPE OF OBSTRUCTION EVIDENCE SCOPE OF OBSTRUCTION EVIDENCE ROBERT MUELLER LIKELY HAS IN ROBERT MUELLER LIKELY HAS IN FRONT OF HIM. FRONT OF HIM. THE “TIMES” CHARACTERIZES ITS THE “TIMES” CHARACTERIZES ITS REPORTING THIS WAY, “AN REPORTING THIS WAY, “AN EXAMINATION BY “THE NEW YORK EXAMINATION BY “THE NEW YORK TIMES” REVEALS THE EXTENT OF AN TIMES” REVEALS THE EXTENT OF AN EVEN MORE SUSTAINED, MORE EVEN MORE SUSTAINED, MORE SECRETIVE, ASSAULT BY MR. TRUMP SECRETIVE, ASSAULT BY MR. TRUMP ON THE MACHINERY OF FEDERAL LAW ON THE MACHINERY OF FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.” ENFORCEMENT.” IT’S A CHILLING LINE IN THAT IT’S A CHILLING LINE IN THAT STORY, WHEN CONSIDERED IN THE STORY, WHEN CONSIDERED IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FULL-SCALE CONTEXT OF THE FULL-SCALE CHARACTER ASSASSINATION UNDER CHARACTER ASSASSINATION UNDER WAY AT 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE WAY AT 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE THIS WEEK AGAINST THE FORMER THIS WEEK AGAINST THE FORMER DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR, A STORY DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR, A STORY WE’LL ALSO GET TO THIS HOUR. WE’LL ALSO GET TO THIS HOUR.>>>BUT WE START WITH THE NEW>>>BUT WE START WITH THE NEW REPORTING AND ONE OF THE REPORTING AND ONE OF THE REPORTERS WHO WROTE THAT PIECE, REPORTERS WHO WROTE THAT PIECE, AS WELL AS SOME OF OUR FAVORITE AS WELL AS SOME OF OUR FAVORITE REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. HARRY LIPPMAN WAS A DEPUTY HARRY LIPPMAN WAS A DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL AND ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL AND U.S. ATTORNEY. U.S. ATTORNEY. FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, GLENN FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, GLENN KIRCHNER JOINS US. KIRCHNER JOINS US. FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY MIMI ROKA AND “WASHINGTON POST” MIMI ROKA AND “WASHINGTON POST” NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER ROBERT COSTA. ROBERT COSTA. LET’S START WITH ONE OF THE LET’S START WITH ONE OF THE REPORTERS’ BYLINE ON THAT STORY, REPORTERS’ BYLINE ON THAT STORY, MIKE SCHMIDT, WHO JOINS US BY MIKE SCHMIDT, WHO JOINS US BY PHONE. PHONE. MIKE, TAKE US THROUGH — THE MIKE, TAKE US THROUGH — THE PIECE IS SO SWEEPING IN NATURE, PIECE IS SO SWEEPING IN NATURE, BUT LET’S START WITH THE NEW BUT LET’S START WITH THE NEW REPORTING ON MATT WHITAKER AND REPORTING ON MATT WHITAKER AND WHAT WAS DESIRED OF HIM. WHAT WAS DESIRED OF HIM. TAKE US THROUGH IT. TAKE US THROUGH IT.>>WELL, THE PRESIDENT SORT OF>>WELL, THE PRESIDENT SORT OF WENT BACK TO ONE OF HIS OLD WENT BACK TO ONE OF HIS OLD PLAYS. PLAYS. IF YOU REMEMBER IN MARCH OF 2017 IF YOU REMEMBER IN MARCH OF 2017 WHEN THE PRESIDENT WAS JUST IN WHEN THE PRESIDENT WAS JUST IN OFFICE, HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL, OFFICE, HIS ATTORNEY GENERAL, JEFF SESSIONS, RECUSED HIMSELF JEFF SESSIONS, RECUSED HIMSELF FROM THE INVESTIGATION. FROM THE INVESTIGATION. THIS DROVE TRUMP NUTS AND HE THIS DROVE TRUMP NUTS AND HE ACTUALLY TRIED TO GET SESSIONS ACTUALLY TRIED TO GET SESSIONS TO UNRECUSE HIMSELF AND PUT BACK TO UNRECUSE HIMSELF AND PUT BACK CONTROL OF THE INVESTIGATION. CONTROL OF THE INVESTIGATION. THAT FAILED AND ULTIMATELY THAT FAILED AND ULTIMATELY BECAME SOMETHING THAT MUELLER BECAME SOMETHING THAT MUELLER WAS LOOKING AT AND WHETHER THE WAS LOOKING AT AND WHETHER THE PRESIDENT OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE. PRESIDENT OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE. THERE WAS NO LESSON THAT APPEARS THERE WAS NO LESSON THAT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN LEARNED FROM THAT. TO HAVE BEEN LEARNED FROM THAT. TRUMP WANTED TO DO THE SAME TRUMP WANTED TO DO THE SAME THING HERE, RAISING THIS IDEA, THING HERE, RAISING THIS IDEA, SAYING COULD THEY GET BERMAN SAYING COULD THEY GET BERMAN BACK IN CONTROL OF IT? BACK IN CONTROL OF IT? BERMAN’S SOMEONE WHO HAD DONATED BERMAN’S SOMEONE WHO HAD DONATED TO HIS CAMPAIGN. TO HIS CAMPAIGN. AND HAD VOLUNTEERED FOR HIS AND HAD VOLUNTEERED FOR HIS CAMPAIGN. CAMPAIGN. AND TRUMP LOOKING FOR — GOING AND TRUMP LOOKING FOR — GOING BACK TO THE TWO CENTRAL THINGS BACK TO THE TWO CENTRAL THINGS OF HIM, ONE OF THE BIGGEST, OF HIM, ONE OF THE BIGGEST, LOYALTY. LOYALTY. WANTING LOYALTY. WANTING LOYALTY. OBSESSION WITH LOYALTY. OBSESSION WITH LOYALTY. A LOYAL PERSON ATOP THE A LOYAL PERSON ATOP THE INVESTIGATION. INVESTIGATION. SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE MORE LOYAL SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE MORE LOYAL TO HIM THAN ANYTHING ELSE. TO HIM THAN ANYTHING ELSE.>>MIKE SCHMIDT, ARE YOU — WE>>MIKE SCHMIDT, ARE YOU — WE TALK ABOUT THE OBSTRUCTION OF TALK ABOUT THE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION INTO THE JUSTICE INVESTIGATION INTO THE PRESIDENT AND THE CONTEXT OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE CONTEXT OF THE MUELLER PROBE. MUELLER PROBE. IS ANYONE ANYWHERE LOOKING AT IS ANYONE ANYWHERE LOOKING AT EXAMINING, AWARE OF, THE EXAMINING, AWARE OF, THE PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT VIS-A-VIS PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT VIS-A-VIS THE SDNY CASES? THE SDNY CASES?>>WE DON’T HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR>>WE DON’T HAVE ANYTHING IN OUR STORY, IN OUR REPORTING, THAT STORY, IN OUR REPORTING, THAT SHOWS MUELLER LOOKING SHOWS MUELLER LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT HOW THE SPECIFICALLY AT HOW THE PRESIDENT HAS INTERACTED WITH PRESIDENT HAS INTERACTED WITH THE SDNY INVESTIGATION. THE SDNY INVESTIGATION. ALL THE STUFF HAS BEEN FOCUSED ALL THE STUFF HAS BEEN FOCUSED MAINLY, AT LEAST BASED ON WHAT MAINLY, AT LEAST BASED ON WHAT WE UNDERSTAND, THINGS THE WE UNDERSTAND, THINGS THE PRESIDENT DID IN OFFICE RELATED PRESIDENT DID IN OFFICE RELATED TO MUELLER. TO MUELLER. EVEN BEFORE MUELLER WAS THERE, EVEN BEFORE MUELLER WAS THERE, ASKING JIM COMEY TO END THE ASKING JIM COMEY TO END THE INVESTIGATION INTO HIS NATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO HIS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MICHAEL FLYNN. SECURITY ADVISER MICHAEL FLYNN. HIS FIRING OF COMEY. HIS FIRING OF COMEY. HOW IN THE AFTERMATH OF THAT, HE HOW IN THE AFTERMATH OF THAT, HE WANTED TO GET RID OF MUELLER AS WANTED TO GET RID OF MUELLER AS WELL. WELL. THAT IS WHAT THE FOCUS HAS BEEN. THAT IS WHAT THE FOCUS HAS BEEN. WE DO NOT KNOW THAT THIS STUFF WE DO NOT KNOW THAT THIS STUFF THAT WE REPORTED ON TODAY IS THAT WE REPORTED ON TODAY IS PART OF MUELLER. PART OF MUELLER.>>SO YOUR STORY IS OUT ON WHAT>>SO YOUR STORY IS OUT ON WHAT I THINK IS THE NEW ATTORNEY I THINK IS THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL’S THIRD DAY IN HIS NEW GENERAL’S THIRD DAY IN HIS NEW OFFICE. OFFICE. LET’S LOOK AT HOW HE DEFINES WHO LET’S LOOK AT HOW HE DEFINES WHO HE WOULD CONSIDER THE DEFINITION HE WOULD CONSIDER THE DEFINITION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE TO BE. OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE TO BE.>>SO, IN MY OPINION, IF HE>>SO, IN MY OPINION, IF HE ATTEMPTS — IF A PRESIDENT ATTEMPTS — IF A PRESIDENT ATTEMPTS TO INTERVENE IN A ATTEMPTS TO INTERVENE IN A MATTER THAT HE HAS A STAKE IN, MATTER THAT HE HAS A STAKE IN, TO PROTECT HIMSELF, THAT SHOULD TO PROTECT HIMSELF, THAT SHOULD FIRST BE LOOKED AT AS A BREACH FIRST BE LOOKED AT AS A BREACH OF HIS CONSTITUTIONAL DUTIES. OF HIS CONSTITUTIONAL DUTIES.>>SO I’M NOT SURE WHAT DONALD>>SO I’M NOT SURE WHAT DONALD TRUMP THOUGHT HE WAS GETTING IN TRUMP THOUGHT HE WAS GETTING IN MR. BARR, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MR. BARR, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE BASED ON WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AT BASED ON WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR ARTICLE, THE BEGINNING OF YOUR ARTICLE, IT WOULD QUALIFY AS BEING IT WOULD QUALIFY AS BEING CONSISTENT WITH WHAT BARR CONSISTENT WITH WHAT BARR DEFINES AS OBSTRUCTING AN DEFINES AS OBSTRUCTING AN INVESTIGATION THAT HE, QUOTE, INVESTIGATION THAT HE, QUOTE, HAS A STAKE IN TO, QUOTE, HAS A STAKE IN TO, QUOTE, PROTECT HIMSELF. PROTECT HIMSELF. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?>>I’M NOT SURE ABOUT THE>>I’M NOT SURE ABOUT THE LEGALNESS AROUND THIS, BUT THERE LEGALNESS AROUND THIS, BUT THERE IS A THEME TO THIS THAT WE’VE IS A THEME TO THIS THAT WE’VE SEEN IN OTHER THINGS WHERE THE SEEN IN OTHER THINGS WHERE THE PRESIDENT SORT OF FAILS TO GET PRESIDENT SORT OF FAILS TO GET WHAT HE WOULD LIKE DONE. WHAT HE WOULD LIKE DONE. THAT THE PRESIDENT SORT OF THAT THE PRESIDENT SORT OF STRUGGLES IN HIS EFFORTS TO STRUGGLES IN HIS EFFORTS TO TRULY OBSTRUCT THE TRULY OBSTRUCT THE INVESTIGATION. INVESTIGATION. HE MAKES A LOT OF NOISE. HE MAKES A LOT OF NOISE. HE SAYS THINGS. HE SAYS THINGS. PEOPLE WILL NOT CARRY OUT HIS PEOPLE WILL NOT CARRY OUT HIS ORDERS. ORDERS. AND ULTIMATELY, HE MOVES ON TO AND ULTIMATELY, HE MOVES ON TO SOMETHING ELSE AND SOURS ON THE SOMETHING ELSE AND SOURS ON THE PERSON. PERSON. IT’S THE SAME EXACT THING THAT IT’S THE SAME EXACT THING THAT HAPPENS WITH JIM COMEY. HAPPENS WITH JIM COMEY. ALMOST NEARLY TO THE DAY, ALMOST NEARLY TO THE DAY, FEBRUARY OF 2017, ASKING COMEY FEBRUARY OF 2017, ASKING COMEY TO END THE INVESTIGATION INTO TO END THE INVESTIGATION INTO FLYNN. FLYNN. COMEY NOT DOING THAT, WRITING COMEY NOT DOING THAT, WRITING ABOUT IT IN A MEMO AND THEN WHEN ABOUT IT IN A MEMO AND THEN WHEN THAT COMES OUT, MUELLER BEING THAT COMES OUT, MUELLER BEING APPOINTED, THE THEME HERE IN THE APPOINTED, THE THEME HERE IN THE REPORTING IS THE PRESIDENT HAS REPORTING IS THE PRESIDENT HAS DONE A LOT OF THINGS BUT NOT DONE A LOT OF THINGS BUT NOT NECESSARILY BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT NECESSARILY BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT MANY TIMES HIS OWN WORST ENEMY, MANY TIMES HIS OWN WORST ENEMY, NOT VERY ADEPT AT GETTING THE NOT VERY ADEPT AT GETTING THE SYSTEM TO DO, AT LEAST BASED ON SYSTEM TO DO, AT LEAST BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT HE WANTS. WHAT WE KNOW, WHAT HE WANTS.>>YOUR PIECE MAKES A POINT IN>>YOUR PIECE MAKES A POINT IN THE VERY BEGINNING ABOUT THE THE VERY BEGINNING ABOUT THE NUMBING EFFECT OF DONALD TRUMP’S NUMBING EFFECT OF DONALD TRUMP’S CONSTANT EFFORTS AT TRYING TO CONSTANT EFFORTS AT TRYING TO OBSTRUCT OR INTERVENE IN THESE OBSTRUCT OR INTERVENE IN THESE INVESTIGATIONS. INVESTIGATIONS. AND THEN GOES ON TO SORT OF AND THEN GOES ON TO SORT OF DESCRIBE THOSE EFFORTS AS BRAZEN DESCRIBE THOSE EFFORTS AS BRAZEN BY ONE OF HIS LAWYERS, CAN’T BE BY ONE OF HIS LAWYERS, CAN’T BE CRIMINAL, WE DO IT IN PUBLIC. CRIMINAL, WE DO IT IN PUBLIC. CAN YOU JUST REMIND US OF ALL CAN YOU JUST REMIND US OF ALL THE FLASHPOINTS? THE FLASHPOINTS? WHETHER IT’S THE EFFORT TO FIRE WHETHER IT’S THE EFFORT TO FIRE ROBERT MUELLER OR GET SESSIONS ROBERT MUELLER OR GET SESSIONS TO UNRECUSE, WHICH YOU MENTIONED TO UNRECUSE, WHICH YOU MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING. AT THE BEGINNING. WHAT IS THE BODY OF CONDUCT FROM WHAT IS THE BODY OF CONDUCT FROM DONALD TRUMP UNDER INVESTIGATION DONALD TRUMP UNDER INVESTIGATION IN THE WIDER OBSTRUCTION OF IN THE WIDER OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE PROBE? JUSTICE PROBE?>>WELL, IT’S EVERYTHING.>>WELL, IT’S EVERYTHING. IT’S EVERYTHING RELATED TO IT’S EVERYTHING RELATED TO COMEY, TO RUSSIA, BUT AS YOU COMEY, TO RUSSIA, BUT AS YOU POINT OUT, THERE’S AN POINT OUT, THERE’S AN INTERESTING SORT OF WRINKLE TO INTERESTING SORT OF WRINKLE TO IT, THAT A LOT OF THESE THINGS IT, THAT A LOT OF THESE THINGS MAY HAVE HAPPENED IN PUBLIC. MAY HAVE HAPPENED IN PUBLIC. THEY MAY HAVE BEEN THINGS HE MAY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN THINGS HE MAY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO PRESSURE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO PRESSURE SESSIONS PUBLICLY THROUGH SESSIONS PUBLICLY THROUGH STATEMENTS, THROUGH TWEETS. STATEMENTS, THROUGH TWEETS. SAYING THINGS LIKE I NEVER WOULD SAYING THINGS LIKE I NEVER WOULD HAVE MADE JEFF SESSIONS MY HAVE MADE JEFF SESSIONS MY ATTORNEY GENERAL IF I KNEW HE ATTORNEY GENERAL IF I KNEW HE WAS GOING TO RECUSE HIMSELF. WAS GOING TO RECUSE HIMSELF. AND SORT OF MIXING THAT WITH AND SORT OF MIXING THAT WITH OTHER THINGS BEHIND THE SCENES OTHER THINGS BEHIND THE SCENES TO TRY AND GET SESSIONS OUT OR TO TRY AND GET SESSIONS OUT OR GET SESSIONS TO FIRE MUELLER. GET SESSIONS TO FIRE MUELLER. SORT OF THE INTERTWINED NATURE SORT OF THE INTERTWINED NATURE OF THEM. OF THEM. THE PIECE THAT WE HAVE HERE THE PIECE THAT WE HAVE HERE TODAY IS SOMETHING HE SAID TO TODAY IS SOMETHING HE SAID TO ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL IN ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL IN PRIVATE. PRIVATE. BUT HE HAS ALSO GONE AFTER THE BUT HE HAS ALSO GONE AFTER THE INVESTIGATIONS IN PUBLIC AND HE INVESTIGATIONS IN PUBLIC AND HE HAS TRIED TO DEMONIZE THE HAS TRIED TO DEMONIZE THE INVESTIGATORS IN PUBLIC AND HE’S INVESTIGATORS IN PUBLIC AND HE’S GONE AFTER WITNESSES IN PUBLIC. GONE AFTER WITNESSES IN PUBLIC. SO THE — SOMETIMES WE SPEND A SO THE — SOMETIMES WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT LOT OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT DID SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT DID BEHIND THE SCENES ONLY TO FIND BEHIND THE SCENES ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT HE SAID IT PUBLICLY AND OUT THAT HE SAID IT PUBLICLY AND MANY TIMES HE HASN’T HIDDEN HIS MANY TIMES HE HASN’T HIDDEN HIS FEELINGS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION FEELINGS ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION AND DONE A VERY GOOD JOB AT SORT AND DONE A VERY GOOD JOB AT SORT OF MOVING PUBLIC OPINION, AT OF MOVING PUBLIC OPINION, AT LEAST MAKING IT CONFUSING FOR LEAST MAKING IT CONFUSING FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN BECAUSE THE AVERAGE AMERICAN BECAUSE THEY HEAR SO MANY DIFFERENT THEY HEAR SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS ABOUT THIS, TO ACTUALLY THINGS ABOUT THIS, TO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HE HAS DONE. UNDERSTAND WHAT HE HAS DONE. OR NOT DONE. OR NOT DONE.>>HARRY LIPPMAN, I’M NOT A>>HARRY LIPPMAN, I’M NOT A LAWYER, BUT IS THAT A DEFENSE? LAWYER, BUT IS THAT A DEFENSE? I MURDERED SOMEONE IN BROAD I MURDERED SOMEONE IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WHILE EVERYBODY WAS DAYLIGHT WHILE EVERYBODY WAS LOOKING? LOOKING?>>I THINK YOU KNOW THE ANSWER>>I THINK YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT ONE. TO THAT ONE. IT SURE — YOU CAN CERTAINLY IT SURE — YOU CAN CERTAINLY OBSTRUCT JUSTICE AND DO IT IN OBSTRUCT JUSTICE AND DO IT IN PLAIN VIEW, IN PLAIN SIGHT. PLAIN VIEW, IN PLAIN SIGHT. FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, IN FACT, THAT’S OFTEN STATES, IN FACT, THAT’S OFTEN THE OPPORTUNITIES YOU HAVE WHEN THE OPPORTUNITIES YOU HAVE WHEN YOU — YOU CAN USE YOUR BULLY YOU — YOU CAN USE YOUR BULLY PULPIT IN A WAY TO ACTUALLY PULPIT IN A WAY TO ACTUALLY INFLUENCE INVESTIGATIONS AND GET INFLUENCE INVESTIGATIONS AND GET THE WORD OUT. THE WORD OUT. BUT WHAT I THINK WAS SO STRIKING BUT WHAT I THINK WAS SO STRIKING ABOUT WHAT ROBERT HAD TO SAY AND ABOUT WHAT ROBERT HAD TO SAY AND THE REPORT, ITSELF, WAS THE THE REPORT, ITSELF, WAS THE PANORAMA OF IT. PANORAMA OF IT. PROSECUTORS INVESTIGATE EPISODES PROSECUTORS INVESTIGATE EPISODES AND THERE ARE MANY EPISODES OF AND THERE ARE MANY EPISODES OF POSSIBLE OBSTRUCTION HERE. POSSIBLE OBSTRUCTION HERE. BUT WHEN YOU TAKE A STEP BACK BUT WHEN YOU TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THIS LONG ARTICLE, AND LOOK AT THIS LONG ARTICLE, WHAT YOU SEE IS A THEME ALMOST WHAT YOU SEE IS A THEME ALMOST LIKE A CONTINUING CRIMINAL LIKE A CONTINUING CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE WHERE THE OBSTRUCTION ENTERPRISE WHERE THE OBSTRUCTION IS JUST SECOND NATURE TO HIM. IS JUST SECOND NATURE TO HIM. THE DEMONIZATION. THE DEMONIZATION. THE ANYTHING GOES KIND OF LIES THE ANYTHING GOES KIND OF LIES ABOUT THE ANTAGONISTS AND THE ABOUT THE ANTAGONISTS AND THE PROSECUTORS. PROSECUTORS. WHEN IT’S ALL ADDED UP, IT’S WHEN IT’S ALL ADDED UP, IT’S MORE THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS. MORE THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS.>>ROBERT COSTA, I WANT TO PLAY>>ROBERT COSTA, I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU SOMETHING THAT I HEARD FOR YOU SOMETHING THAT I HEARD RIGHT WHEN MIKE AND HIS RIGHT WHEN MIKE AND HIS COLLEAGUES’ STORY BROKE. COLLEAGUES’ STORY BROKE. I FLIPPED OVER TO FOX NEWS TO I FLIPPED OVER TO FOX NEWS TO SEE, ONE, IF IT WAS BEING SEE, ONE, IF IT WAS BEING COVERED, AND TO SHEP SMITH, A COVERED, AND TO SHEP SMITH, A GREAT, GREAT JOURNALIST OVER GREAT, GREAT JOURNALIST OVER THERE, CREDITS, OF COURSE IT THERE, CREDITS, OF COURSE IT WAS. WAS. HE HAD ON JUDGE NAPOLITANO. HE HAD ON JUDGE NAPOLITANO. THEIR EFANALYSIS WAS DAMNING. THEIR EFANALYSIS WAS DAMNING. I WANT TO ASK YOU HOW THIS IS I WANT TO ASK YOU HOW THIS IS PLAYING IN THE WEST WING. PLAYING IN THE WEST WING.>>PRESIDENT TRUMP, IF “THE NEW>>PRESIDENT TRUMP, IF “THE NEW YORK TIMES” IS CORRECT, WANTED YORK TIMES” IS CORRECT, WANTED HIS ALLY TO BE IN CHARGE OF BOTH HIS ALLY TO BE IN CHARGE OF BOTH OF THOSE INVESTIGATIONS. OF THOSE INVESTIGATIONS. MATT WHITAKER, TO HIS CREDIT, MATT WHITAKER, TO HIS CREDIT, APPARENTLY DID NOT EXECUTE THAT APPARENTLY DID NOT EXECUTE THAT COMMAND. COMMAND.>>BUT THAT — THAT PHONE CALL,>>BUT THAT — THAT PHONE CALL, YOU SAID THAT’S EVIDENT OF YOU SAID THAT’S EVIDENT OF CORRUPT INTENT. CORRUPT INTENT.>>ON PART OF PRESIDENT BECAUSE>>ON PART OF PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE’S MAKING A — HE’S MAKING A –>>WOULD THAT BE OBSTRUCTION?>>WOULD THAT BE OBSTRUCTION?>>YES.>>YES. IT WOULD BE ATTEMPTED IT WOULD BE ATTEMPTED OBSTRUCTION. OBSTRUCTION. IT WOULD ONLY BE OBSTRUCTION IF IT WOULD ONLY BE OBSTRUCTION IF IT SUCCEEDED. IT SUCCEEDED. IF YOU TRY TO INTERFERE WITH A IF YOU TRY TO INTERFERE WITH A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT MAY CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT MAY KNOCK AT YOUR OWN DOOR BY KNOCK AT YOUR OWN DOOR BY PUTTING YOUR ALLY IN THERE, THAT PUTTING YOUR ALLY IN THERE, THAT IS CLEARLY AN ATTEMPT TO IS CLEARLY AN ATTEMPT TO OBSTRUCT JUSTICE. OBSTRUCT JUSTICE.>>ROBERT COSTA, I KNOW THEY>>ROBERT COSTA, I KNOW THEY DON’T CARE WHAT WE SAY HERE ON DON’T CARE WHAT WE SAY HERE ON THIS NETWORK, BUT THEY CARE THIS NETWORK, BUT THEY CARE VERY, VERY MUCH, MOST OF THEM VERY, VERY MUCH, MOST OF THEM WILL ADMIT IT PRIVATELY, WHAT WILL ADMIT IT PRIVATELY, WHAT HAPPENS ON THAT NETWORK. HAPPENS ON THAT NETWORK. NOT A GOOD OMAN FOR THIS NOT A GOOD OMAN FOR THIS PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT.>>WHAT THE JUDGE OVER THERE ON>>WHAT THE JUDGE OVER THERE ON FOX SAID IS WHAT REPUBLICANS NOW FOX SAID IS WHAT REPUBLICANS NOW ARE FACING ON CAPITOL HILL. ARE FACING ON CAPITOL HILL. THEY SEE THE LEGAL STORM CLOUDS THEY SEE THE LEGAL STORM CLOUDS OVER THIS PRESIDENT ABOUT HIS OVER THIS PRESIDENT ABOUT HIS CONDUCT. CONDUCT. THEY KNOW THAT PAUL MANAFORT AND THEY KNOW THAT PAUL MANAFORT AND GENERAL FLYNN AND OTHERS MAY GENERAL FLYNN AND OTHERS MAY HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES WITH HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES WITH RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 CAMPAIGN, BUT NOW THE PRTESIDENT CAMPAIGN, BUT NOW THE PRTESIDENT WHO HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WHO HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN HIS GRIP IS FACING MOUNTING HIS GRIP IS FACING MOUNTING QUESTIONS OF OBSTRUCTION OR QUESTIONS OF OBSTRUCTION OR ALLEGED OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ALLEGED OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE AS OUTLINED IN “THE NEW YORK AS OUTLINED IN “THE NEW YORK TIMES.” TIMES.” TERRIFIC STORY BY MIKE SCHMIDT TERRIFIC STORY BY MIKE SCHMIDT AND OTHERS. AND OTHERS. AND THROUGH OTHER INCIDENCES AND THROUGH OTHER INCIDENCES OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS. OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS. THAT’S THE CRITICAL ISSUE RIGHT THAT’S THE CRITICAL ISSUE RIGHT NOW FOR THOSE ON THE NOW FOR THOSE ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE. CONSERVATIVE SIDE. YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IN RUSSIAN YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE IN RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, WAS A BIG ISSUE. INTERFERENCE, WAS A BIG ISSUE. IT WAS SOMETHING UNRELATED TO IT WAS SOMETHING UNRELATED TO THE PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT. BUT THE PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT, BUT THE PRESIDENT’S CONDUCT, THAT IS SOMETHING IN THE THAT IS SOMETHING IN THE SPOTLIGHT AND THAT WILL LIKELY SPOTLIGHT AND THAT WILL LIKELY BE DETAILED BY ROBERT MUELLER AT BE DETAILED BY ROBERT MUELLER AT SOME LEVEL. SOME LEVEL. DOZENS OF INSTANCES OF WHETHER DOZENS OF INSTANCES OF WHETHER YOU CALL IT OBSTRUCTION OR NOT, YOU CALL IT OBSTRUCTION OR NOT, OF BEHAVIOR THAT CONGRESS WILL OF BEHAVIOR THAT CONGRESS WILL HAVE TO SCRUTINIZE. HAVE TO SCRUTINIZE.>>MIMI, I ALWAYS LIKE TO GO>>MIMI, I ALWAYS LIKE TO GO BACK WHEN SOMETHING ON THE BACK WHEN SOMETHING ON THE OBSTRUCTION SIDE, WHEN THERE’S A OBSTRUCTION SIDE, WHEN THERE’S A NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND SEE THE NEW DEVELOPMENT, AND SEE THE PRESIDENT IN HIS OWN WORDS PRESIDENT IN HIS OWN WORDS REACTING IN A WAY THAT I DON’T REACTING IN A WAY THAT I DON’T THINK WE’VE SEEN IN HIS ENTIRE THINK WE’VE SEEN IN HIS ENTIRE PRESIDENCY. PRESIDENCY. THE WAY HE REACTED, THE THINGS THE WAY HE REACTED, THE THINGS HE SAID THE DAY OF THE COHEN HE SAID THE DAY OF THE COHEN RAID. RAID. AND I’M GOING TO PLAY THIS AND I’M GOING TO PLAY THIS BECAUSE ALL OF HIS CLOSEST BECAUSE ALL OF HIS CLOSEST ALLIES SAY IT IS THE COHEN RAID ALLIES SAY IT IS THE COHEN RAID AND THE CASES THAT STEMMED FROM AND THE CASES THAT STEMMED FROM COHEN FLIPPING AND COHEN NOW COHEN FLIPPING AND COHEN NOW HAVING NOTHING TO LOSE. HAVING NOTHING TO LOSE. HE’S ON HIS WAY TO PRISON. HE’S ON HIS WAY TO PRISON. THAT GIVES THE PRESIDENT THE THAT GIVES THE PRESIDENT THE MOST FEAR ON THE LEGAL FRONT. MOST FEAR ON THE LEGAL FRONT. LET’S WATCH THAT REACTION FROM LET’S WATCH THAT REACTION FROM MANY MONTHS AGO. MANY MONTHS AGO.>>IT’S A DISGRACE.>>IT’S A DISGRACE. IT’S, FRANKLY, A REAL DISGRACE. IT’S, FRANKLY, A REAL DISGRACE. IT’S AN ATTACK ON OUR COUNTRY, IT’S AN ATTACK ON OUR COUNTRY, IN A TRUE SENSE. IN A TRUE SENSE. IT’S AN ATTACK ON WHAT WE ALL IT’S AN ATTACK ON WHAT WE ALL STAND FOR. STAND FOR.>>THIS WAS A RAID ON THE HOMES>>THIS WAS A RAID ON THE HOMES AND OFFICES OF MICHAEL COHEN, AND OFFICES OF MICHAEL COHEN, WHO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WAS WHO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WAS THE PRESIDENT’S FIXER. THE PRESIDENT’S FIXER. HE PAID MONEY TO WOMEN HE HAD HE PAID MONEY TO WOMEN HE HAD ALLEGED SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS ALLEGED SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH. WITH. IT WAS A LOT OF THINGS. IT WAS A LOT OF THINGS. IT WAS NOT AN ATTACK ON OUR IT WAS NOT AN ATTACK ON OUR NATION. NATION. MIMI. MIMI.>>EXACTLY, NICOLLE.>>EXACTLY, NICOLLE. WHEN I WAS READING THE ARTICLE WHEN I WAS READING THE ARTICLE TODAY, I THOUGHT OF THAT DAY TODAY, I THOUGHT OF THAT DAY ALSO OF WHEN TRUMP WAS SO ALSO OF WHEN TRUMP WAS SO INCENSED ABOUT THE RAID ON INCENSED ABOUT THE RAID ON MICHAEL — I HATE TO CALL IT A MICHAEL — I HATE TO CALL IT A RAID — THE LAWFULLY EXECUTED RAID — THE LAWFULLY EXECUTED SEARCH WARRANT ON MICHAEL SEARCH WARRANT ON MICHAEL COHEN’S OFFICE. COHEN’S OFFICE. IT’S SO CLEAR. IT’S SO CLEAR. IT WAS CLEAR THEY DAY, IT’S MORE IT WAS CLEAR THEY DAY, IT’S MORE CLEAR NOW IN RETROSPECT GIVEN CLEAR NOW IN RETROSPECT GIVEN WHAT MICHAEL COHEN CAME OUT AND WHAT MICHAEL COHEN CAME OUT AND SAID UNDER OATH ABOUT THE SAID UNDER OATH ABOUT THE PRESIDENT THAT HE WAS SAYING PRESIDENT THAT HE WAS SAYING THOSE THINGS, TRUMP, OUT OF THOSE THINGS, TRUMP, OUT OF FEAR. FEAR. HE WAS AFRAID OF WHAT WAS GOING HE WAS AFRAID OF WHAT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS TO COME OUT OF THIS INVESTIGATION AND WE KNOW THE INVESTIGATION AND WE KNOW THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT DID NOT END SOUTHERN DISTRICT DID NOT END ITS INVESTIGATION WHEN MICHAEL ITS INVESTIGATION WHEN MICHAEL COHEN PLED GUILTY. COHEN PLED GUILTY. THERE HAVE NOW BEEN FREQUENT, THERE HAVE NOW BEEN FREQUENT, SEVERAL STATEMENTS, IN COURT SEVERAL STATEMENTS, IN COURT DOCUMENTS AND BY THE SOUTHERN DOCUMENTS AND BY THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT, THAT THEY HAVE AN ON DISTRICT, THAT THEY HAVE AN ON ONGOING INVESTIGATION AND THAT, ONGOING INVESTIGATION AND THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT IS SO DANGEROUS TO ME, IS WHAT IS SO DANGEROUS AND STRIKING ABOUT THIS AND STRIKING ABOUT THIS ATTEMPTED OBSTRUCTION BY TRUMP. ATTEMPTED OBSTRUCTION BY TRUMP. THE FIRING OF COMEY, THE ASKING THE FIRING OF COMEY, THE ASKING TO LET THE INVESTIGATION GO TO TO LET THE INVESTIGATION GO TO FLYNN, I PERSONALLY THINK, LIKE FLYNN, I PERSONALLY THINK, LIKE MANY OTHER LEGAL EXPERTS, THAT MANY OTHER LEGAL EXPERTS, THAT THAT COULD AND SHOULD CONSTITUTE THAT COULD AND SHOULD CONSTITUTE OBSTRUCTION, BUT THERE ARE OBSTRUCTION, BUT THERE ARE ARGUABLE DEFENSES THAT TRUMP ARGUABLE DEFENSES THAT TRUMP COULD RAISE AND HE COULD SAY HE COULD RAISE AND HE COULD SAY HE WAS HELPING A FRIEND OR HE WAS WAS HELPING A FRIEND OR HE WAS TRYING TO AN END INVESTIGATION TRYING TO AN END INVESTIGATION THAT WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED THAT WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED AND IT DIDN’T CENTER ON HIM AT AND IT DIDN’T CENTER ON HIM AT THE TIME OF THE FIRING. THE TIME OF THE FIRING. HE CANNOT SAY THOSE THINGS ABOUT HE CANNOT SAY THOSE THINGS ABOUT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. YORK. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HE HAS THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT HE HAS KNOWN FROM DAY ONE AND IT HAS KNOWN FROM DAY ONE AND IT HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE EVIDENT, BECOME MORE AND MORE EVIDENT, INCLUDING COHEN’S STATEMENT INCLUDING COHEN’S STATEMENT UNDER OATH, THAT THE SOUTHERN UNDER OATH, THAT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK’S DISTRICT OF NEW YORK’S INVESTIGATION CENTERS ON TRUMP’S INVESTIGATION CENTERS ON TRUMP’S FAMILY, TRUMP’S BUSINESS, AND FAMILY, TRUMP’S BUSINESS, AND LIKELY TRUMP, HIMSELF, WHETHER LIKELY TRUMP, HIMSELF, WHETHER OR NOT HE CAN BE INDICTED. OR NOT HE CAN BE INDICTED. AND SO IT IS JUST THE CLEAREST AND SO IT IS JUST THE CLEAREST FORM OF ONBSTRUCTIONOBSTRUCTION, FORM OF ONBSTRUCTIONOBSTRUCTION, THAT WE’VE SEEN. THAT WE’VE SEEN. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT AND, FRANKLY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT AND, FRANKLY, BERMAN, WHO TRUMP SEES, I GUESS, BERMAN, WHO TRUMP SEES, I GUESS, AS AN ALLY, BUT BERMAN DID THE AS AN ALLY, BUT BERMAN DID THE RIGHT THING BY RECUSING HIMSELF RIGHT THING BY RECUSING HIMSELF IN LEAVING THIS INVESTIGATION IN IN LEAVING THIS INVESTIGATION IN THE HANDS OF CAREER PROSECUTORS. THE HANDS OF CAREER PROSECUTORS.>>MIKE SCHMIDT, I WANT TO ASK>>MIKE SCHMIDT, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF YOUR WHITAKER YOU ABOUT SOME OF YOUR WHITAKER REPORTING IN HERE, BUT ARE WE REPORTING IN HERE, BUT ARE WE LOOKING AT THIS TODAY TOO LOOKING AT THIS TODAY TOO NARROWLY? NARROWLY? WAS TRUMP JUST CONCERNED ABOUT WAS TRUMP JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE COHEN CASE AND THE HUSH THE COHEN CASE AND THE HUSH MONEY CASE? MONEY CASE? OR WAS HE WORRIED ABOUT THE OR WAS HE WORRIED ABOUT THE BROADER SCOPE AND THE BROADER BROADER SCOPE AND THE BROADER MANDATE OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT MANDATE OF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK? OF NEW YORK?>>IT’S UNCLEAR.>>IT’S UNCLEAR. I THINK WITH TRUMP, IT ALWAYS I THINK WITH TRUMP, IT ALWAYS COMES BACK TO ONE CENTRAL COMES BACK TO ONE CENTRAL QUESTION WHICH IS HIS FINANCES. QUESTION WHICH IS HIS FINANCES. SINCE JULY OF 2017, HE HAS SAID SINCE JULY OF 2017, HE HAS SAID THAT HIS FINANCES, HIS MONEY, THAT HIS FINANCES, HIS MONEY, WOULD BE A RED LINE, WHICH WOULD WOULD BE A RED LINE, WHICH WOULD BE — FOR MUELLER. BE — FOR MUELLER. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TIMES HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TIMES SAYING IF MUELLER LOOKS AT HIS SAYING IF MUELLER LOOKS AT HIS FINANCES, THAT WOULD BE GOING FINANCES, THAT WOULD BE GOING TOO FAR. TOO FAR. I CAN’T IMAGINE IF THE SOUTHERN I CAN’T IMAGINE IF THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK IS LOOKING DISTRICT OF NEW YORK IS LOOKING ATS HIS FINANCES, HE WOULD BE ATS HIS FINANCES, HE WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT. OKAY WITH THAT. SO SHE’S ALWAYS BEEN VERY SO SHE’S ALWAYS BEEN VERY SENSITIVE ON THAT ISSUE. SENSITIVE ON THAT ISSUE. ON HIS MONEY. ON HIS MONEY. INCLUDING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL INCLUDING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL WHERE HE WOULDN’T RELEASE HIS WHERE HE WOULDN’T RELEASE HIS OWN TAXES. OWN TAXES. SO, HERE, YOU HAVE — THE SO, HERE, YOU HAVE — THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS CROSSED JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS CROSSED THAT RED LINE. THAT RED LINE. THE PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, HAS THE PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, HAS TRIED TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS TO TRIED TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS TO SORT OF REIN IT IN, AND IF THERE SORT OF REIN IT IN, AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT HE’S MOST IS ANYTHING THAT HE’S MOST FOCUSED ON, ITMONEY, IT IS THE FOCUSED ON, ITMONEY, IT IS THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT. SOUTHERN DISTRICT. WE HAVE NO INDICATION ON THE WE HAVE NO INDICATION ON THE MUELLER SIDE THAT MUELLER HAS MUELLER SIDE THAT MUELLER HAS LOOKED AT THE MONEY. LOOKED AT THE MONEY. ON PAYMENTS TO THE WOMEN AND ON ON PAYMENTS TO THE WOMEN AND ON THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, IT IS THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, IT IS HIS MONEY. HIS MONEY.>>CHUCK ROSENBERG SAYS MUELLER>>CHUCK ROSENBERG SAYS MUELLER HAS HIS TAXES. HAS HIS TAXES. WE’LL SAFEVE THAT FOR ANOTHER DA WE’LL SAFEVE THAT FOR ANOTHER DA I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS REPORTING ABOUT ACTING ATTORNEY REPORTING ABOUT ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL MATT WHITAKER. GENERAL MATT WHITAKER. YOU GUYS WRITE “MR. WHITAKER WHO YOU GUYS WRITE “MR. WHITAKER WHO EARLIER THIS MONTH TOLD A EARLIER THIS MONTH TOLD A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE THAT MR. CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE THAT MR. TRUMP NEVER PRESSURED HIM OVER TRUMP NEVER PRESSURED HIM OVER THE VARIOUS INVESTIGATIONS IS THE VARIOUS INVESTIGATIONS IS NOW UNDER SCRUTINY BY HOUSE NOW UNDER SCRUTINY BY HOUSE DEMOCRATS FOR POSSIBLE PERJURY.” DEMOCRATS FOR POSSIBLE PERJURY.” IS ANYONE IN THE JUSTICE IS ANYONE IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LOOKING AT HIS DEPARTMENT LOOKING AT HIS TESTIMONY OR IS THIS STILL THE TESTIMONY OR IS THIS STILL THE DEMOCRATS IN THEIR OVERSIGHT DEMOCRATS IN THEIR OVERSIGHT ROLE OVER REPUBLICAN-LED JUSTICE ROLE OVER REPUBLICAN-LED JUSTICE DEPARTMENT? DEPARTMENT?>>I’M SURE LIKE ANY OFFICIAL>>I’M SURE LIKE ANY OFFICIAL WHO GOES UP TO CAPITOL HILL AND WHO GOES UP TO CAPITOL HILL AND TESTIFIES, THE JUSTICE TESTIFIES, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WILL GO BACK AND LOOK DEPARTMENT WILL GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT. AT IT. I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING BEYOND I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING BEYOND THAT THAT WOULD BE THERE. THAT THAT WOULD BE THERE. I CAN IMAGINE THIS WILL BE AN I CAN IMAGINE THIS WILL BE AN ISSUE THAT THE DEMOCRATS WILL ISSUE THAT THE DEMOCRATS WILL CONTINUE TO BRING UP TIME AND CONTINUE TO BRING UP TIME AND TIME AGAIN. TIME AGAIN. TO TRY AND GET WHITAKER TO TRY TO TRY AND GET WHITAKER TO TRY AND PIN HIM DOWN. AND PIN HIM DOWN. YOU SORT OF SEE THE PROBLEM AT YOU SORT OF SEE THE PROBLEM AT TIMES WITH ALLOWING MEMBERS OF TIMES WITH ALLOWING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO ASK SOMEONE A CONGRESS TO ASK SOMEONE A QUESTION. QUESTION. THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WHITAKER PROVIDED DIFFERENT WHITAKER PROVIDED DIFFERENT ANSWERS THAT DON’T NECESSARILY ANSWERS THAT DON’T NECESSARILY PROVIDE COMPLETE CLARITY TO WHAT PROVIDE COMPLETE CLARITY TO WHAT WENT ON. WENT ON. PERHAPS, IN FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS PERHAPS, IN FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEES UP THERE, FROM THE COMMITTEES UP THERE, WHITAKER WILL EXPLAIN ACTUALLY WHITAKER WILL EXPLAIN ACTUALLY AEFRLG AEFRLG EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON HERE. EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON HERE. A READING OF THE TRANSCRIPT IS A READING OF THE TRANSCRIPT IS NOT ENTIRELY CAREER WHAT THE NOT ENTIRELY CAREER WHAT THE CONVERSATIONS WERE WITH THE CONVERSATIONS WERE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND WHEN THEY MAY HAVE PRESIDENT AND WHEN THEY MAY HAVE HAPPENED. HAPPENED.>>GLENN KIRCHNER, IT’S A GOOD>>GLENN KIRCHNER, IT’S A GOOD POINT. POINT. CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES DO GIVE CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES DO GIVE WITNESSES AN OPPORTUNITY TO WITNESSES AN OPPORTUNITY TO CLEAN UP SOMETIMES SOMETHING CLEAN UP SOMETIMES SOMETHING THEY SAID. THEY SAID. LET ME PUT UP ONE OF STATEMENTS LET ME PUT UP ONE OF STATEMENTS THAT HE MIGHT NEED TO CLEAN UP. THAT HE MIGHT NEED TO CLEAN UP. WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT. WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT.>>AT NO TIME HAS THE WHITE>>AT NO TIME HAS THE WHITE HOUSE ASKED FOR, NOR HAVE I HOUSE ASKED FOR, NOR HAVE I PROVIDED, ANY PROMISES OR PROVIDED, ANY PROMISES OR COMMITMENTS CONCERNING THE COMMITMENTS CONCERNING THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S INVESTIGATION SPECIAL COUNSEL’S INVESTIGATION OR ANY OTHER INVESTIGATION. OR ANY OTHER INVESTIGATION.>>GLENN KIRCHNER, YOU THINK>>GLENN KIRCHNER, YOU THINK THAT’S SOMETHING HE’S GOING TO THAT’S SOMETHING HE’S GOING TO WANT TO MAYBE SAY, OH, I WANT TO MAYBE SAY, OH, I REMEMBERED SOMETHING, COME TO REMEMBERED SOMETHING, COME TO THINK OF IT. THINK OF IT.>>YEAH, NICOLLE, PLUS ONE POINT>>YEAH, NICOLLE, PLUS ONE POINT TO MATTHEW WHITAKER FOR TELLING TO MATTHEW WHITAKER FOR TELLING PRESIDENT TRUMP THAT GEOFF PRESIDENT TRUMP THAT GEOFF BERMAN CANNOT SUPERVISE THE BERMAN CANNOT SUPERVISE THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK INVESTIGATION, BUT MINUS TWO INVESTIGATION, BUT MINUS TWO POINTS FOR GIVING WHAT SURE POINTS FOR GIVING WHAT SURE SEEMS TO BE MISLEADING ANSWERS SEEMS TO BE MISLEADING ANSWERS ON THAT VERY TOPIC. ON THAT VERY TOPIC. WHETHER THE PRESIDENT EVER WHETHER THE PRESIDENT EVER PRESSURED HIM, APPROACHED HIM, PRESSURED HIM, APPROACHED HIM, TRIED TO GET HIM TO DO SOMETHING TRIED TO GET HIM TO DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO THE SOUTHERN WITH RESPECT TO THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK DISTRICT OF NEW YORK INVESTIGATION. INVESTIGATION. SO I THINK ULTIMATELY, MATTHEW SO I THINK ULTIMATELY, MATTHEW WHITAKER MAY HAVE GONE FROM THE WHITAKER MAY HAVE GONE FROM THE LEAST QUALIFIED ACTING ATTORNEY LEAST QUALIFIED ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE HISTORY OF OUR GENERAL IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, TO POTENTIALLY A COUNTRY, TO POTENTIALLY A SUBJECT OR A TARGET OF A FALSE SUBJECT OR A TARGET OF A FALSE STATEMENTS INVESTIGATION FOR STATEMENTS INVESTIGATION FOR WHAT SEEMS TO BE MISLEADING WHAT SEEMS TO BE MISLEADING TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS. TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS.>>IT’S AMAZING.>>IT’S AMAZING. IT DOES — IT DOES SORT OF PROVE IT DOES — IT DOES SORT OF PROVE OUT, ROBERT COSTA, THIS TENET OUT, ROBERT COSTA, THIS TENET THAT EVEN PEOPLE CLOSE TO DONALD THAT EVEN PEOPLE CLOSE TO DONALD TRUMP WILL SAY THAT EVERYONE WHO TRUMP WILL SAY THAT EVERYONE WHO BECOMES ENTANGLED, WHETHER IT’S BECOMES ENTANGLED, WHETHER IT’S MANAFORT WHO’D DONE YEARS OF MANAFORT WHO’D DONE YEARS OF ETHICALLY QUESTIONABLE BUSINESS ETHICALLY QUESTIONABLE BUSINESS FOR YEARS, GETS CAUGHT AND FOR YEARS, GETS CAUGHT AND PROSECUTED AND SENTENCED WHEN HE PROSECUTED AND SENTENCED WHEN HE GOES TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP. GOES TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP. ALL OF THESE FIGURES COME IN ALL OF THESE FIGURES COME IN CONTACT WITH DONALD TRUMP AND IT CONTACT WITH DONALD TRUMP AND IT SEEMS THAT THEY GET SCRUTINIZED SEEMS THAT THEY GET SCRUTINIZED IN A NEW WAY. IN A NEW WAY. YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR ANY YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR ANY REPORTING ABOUT MATT WHITAKER’S REPORTING ABOUT MATT WHITAKER’S FUTURE, ROBERT COSTA? FUTURE, ROBERT COSTA?>>MATTHEW WHITAKER WAS A>>MATTHEW WHITAKER WAS A COMMENTATOR BEFORE HE JOINED THE COMMENTATOR BEFORE HE JOINED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. HIS FRIENDS TELL ME HE WOULD HIS FRIENDS TELL ME HE WOULD LIKE TO BECOME A CONSERVATIVE LIKE TO BECOME A CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR. COMMENTATOR. ONCE AGAIN, THOUGH, AT THE ONCE AGAIN, THOUGH, AT THE MOMENT, HE’S STILL LINGERING MOMENT, HE’S STILL LINGERING AROUND THE DEPARTMENT OF AROUND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. JUSTICE. WHAT WE’RE SEEING WITH THIS WHAT WE’RE SEEING WITH THIS WHITAKER EXCHANGE, WITH THE WHITAKER EXCHANGE, WITH THE COREY LEWANDOWSKI EXCHANGE, WITH COREY LEWANDOWSKI EXCHANGE, WITH THE PRESIDENT, AND “THE NEW YORK THE PRESIDENT, AND “THE NEW YORK TIMES” STORY, IS A WHITE HOUSE TIMES” STORY, IS A WHITE HOUSE THAT WANTED TO KEEP THE RUSSIA THAT WANTED TO KEEP THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION SEPARATES, INVESTIGATION SEPARATES, BRINGING IN EMMET FLOOD, HAVING BRINGING IN EMMET FLOOD, HAVING RUDY GIULIANI AND OTHER LAWYERS RUDY GIULIANI AND OTHER LAWYERS ON THE OUTSIDE. ON THE OUTSIDE. HAS ALWAYS FOUND THE WATERS TO HAS ALWAYS FOUND THE WATERS TO BE MUDDY OVER THE PAST TWO BE MUDDY OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS. YEARS. THE WHITE HOUSE HAS STRUGGLED THE WHITE HOUSE HAS STRUGGLED ACROSS THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE ACROSS THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION THAT THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION REMAINS SEPARATE. REMAINS SEPARATE. THE PRESIDENT TIME AND AGAIN THE PRESIDENT TIME AND AGAIN KEEPS INTERACTING WITH DIFFERENT KEEPS INTERACTING WITH DIFFERENT OFFICIALS, ASSOCIATES, BRINGING OFFICIALS, ASSOCIATES, BRINGING THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION BACK

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